I LOVE D-Rock's comment of "If four 12 gauge shells won't put them down, you're fucked anyways." I want that on a teeshirt, dammit.
The knee-jerk reaction that happens after such tragedies should be remembered as an emotional reaction in a time logic is needed. If people really, really want to make sure shit like this happens less, then they need to acknowledge putting a band-aid on something that requires a tourniquet will not work in the long run... and we'll be back at square one. That way, less loopholes are created for others to exploit. Rushing things through in the wake of disaster will inevitably create said loophole.
Loopholes are BAD! Say no to legislative loopholes!
/end PSA
Another excellent and very relevant show. Thank you Jenn & D-Rock!
I'm proud of D-Rock for being able to realize she was wrong on a topic and changing her mind. Any topic, I'm not referring to gun control specifically. So few people are able to do that. They get a view and hold to it come hell or high water.
I love when you guys do serious episodes, I learn so much! I also hate you guys (kidding!), because I paused at the beginning and spent ten minutes trying to find info about how/why al-Qa'ida sets their videos up the way the do and what all goes into it. No luck so far, and since I study that sort of thing, I'm super disappointed.
I bet more people are like you guys, changing your opinions on gun ownership in response to current events, than we see in the media. I hope so, at least.
It makes me a little more hopeful that there are some gun owners who are willing to change their stance on semi-automatic weapons. So, thanks for that hope Des. You're awesome and I adore you.
I love it when smart women show off their smarts by: 1. Questioning everything 2. Educating themselves 3. Forming opinions based on what they've learned. Jen, you and D-Rock are class acts all the way! Love the Roadhouse & love ya both!
Yay! So pleased with this episode. For one, it was really interesting to hear about the various guns, since I'm not overly familiar with them. I was also very happy to hear D-rock's thoughts on things. I love it when people who enjoy guns can have moderate and reasonable opinions about gun control. I've always said that it's perfectly fine to keep hunting weapons around, but there's no reason to keep guns that can only be used to kill large numbers of people.
Awesome episode! I'm kind of in love with D-Rock. Since you're doing Joss Whedon next week, can you please explain to me what the big deal is about that guy? I love Dr. Horrible, but pretty much everything else he's done just seems so meh to me.
You brought up a really good point - about the difficulty of actually stopping or shooting a prepared mass-shooter. And a lot of the mass-shooters have been VERY prepared. Banks quit having armed security guards - partly due to cost, but also very much because of liability reasons and because the armed guards are typically the first thing a prepared robber goes after.
The problem is that a lot of gun owners way over-estimate their own ability, let alone that of other gun owners. And even police officers aren't all at the same level, and police officers - despite their own preparedness - are surprised in the line of duty. A lot of police officers are wounded and killed every year - including extremely experienced veterans - and a lot of police who return fire aren't able to make every shot count. So we have instances where an entire magazine is emptied relatively ineffectually, or bystanders struck.
As Jen and D-Rock both noted - not every gun owner (and frankly, only a minority of gun owners) actually secure their weapons against unauthorized use. Real gun safes (the big kind and not the kind you can carry under your arm) are expensive and an extremely tiny percentage of all gun owners have one. That's why a lot of guns used in mass shootings were legally obtained by someone else, and then easily borrowed by the mass shooter who is a relative or friend. This is without even going into the pass-through sales where someone deliberately buys a gun for someone else who otherwise couldn't buy one.
I think D-Rock's suggestion of elevating the requirements for owning *certain* weapons is a good one. While many gun owners hold up Switzerland as a country with high gun ownership but relatively low crime and murder rate, what they overlook is that 1) Males in Switzerland serve in the military and receive training 2) Ammunition for their military rifles is typically kept secured in central depots 3) Switzerland has far more requirements for permitting and obtaining firearms than the U.S.
The problem is that the NRA fears a slippery slope, so the organization and its members or supporters refuse to budge a single inch - even for "reasonable" requirements. Because they fear once an inch is granted, more will be lost. If the U.S. *was* like Switzerland - requiring compulsory military service and training, and heavily regulating gun ownership - perhaps the murder rate, as well as mass-murder rate - might lessen. Or maybe not. It's difficult to pivot a society with 300 million firearms that has spent decades believing in easily availability of guns with few restrictions to adopt changes.
It's relevant to note that the Assault Weapon Ban and High-Capacity Magazinr Ban placed high barriers to obtaining "assault-type" weapons and high-capacity magazines - in the form of prices that often tripled over what they were before. Some manufacturers did end up producing modified variants of the same weapons, with cosmetic changes to comply with the ban. A few manufacturers like Heckler & Koch (already high-end) basically didn't bother (other than producing a limited number of SR-9 variants of the banned HK-91). It's also relevant to note that while high prices may be a deterrent for some or many potential mass-shooters (very few have used expensive weapons) that wasn't the case with Sandy Hook where the shooter's mother procured high-end weapons which he then used.
I think higher barriers to owning certain weapons - through training requirements, licensing, higher prices, and some regulations - would reduce the number of mass shootings. The only way to truly eliminate them or make them very rare would be a total ban. But a total ban is essentially impossible due to needing to amend the Constitution (and the 2nd Amendment won't be amended) and by the 300 million firearms existing in the U.S., many or most of which no one really knows who owns them.
Loved the episode. As always informational and well put together, and its especially refreshing to see people talk about guns responsibly. I have always been an advocate of gun control just because it seemed irresponsible not to, and not because I've ever had a poor experience with guns. My grandpa owns them, but he was always the very spirit of The Rifleman, which I didn't watch with him until I was already in college, whose message always was that a gun is a tool and should only be the last resort in a situation. He has sold a lot of them off now, but he was a hobbyist of sorts and had a varied collection. I was never interested in them as a child, but I know he kept them in a case and the ammunition wasn't in one unless he intended to use it; however, I imagine if someone had wanted to break in and steal one that it may not have been terribly difficult to do while we were out. He didn't have anything beyond a semi-automatic except maybe a fully automatic hand gun, but like D-Rock said a semi-automatic can do plenty of damage on its own. In the wake of the many senseless tragedies that have kept my parents and others up at nights I think some reform is long overdue. Not only for the safety of children in schools, but also for the well-being of the general public. It is scary to think what kind of death machines are wandering around out there and who has access to them. It was kind of funny to poke at E.L. James not being able to Google the sort of basic requirements to get a gun, but in the end maybe its kind of a sad perception of American society; after all, in the hands of a slightly more skilled author switch out the exaggerated way she obtained her gun to her getting one from a friend or a relative or even stealing it from them and in the wake of what happened it becomes eerily similar to what just occurred. Food for thought.
Anyway, I hope we can come together as a society and make changes for the better. I wish more people were like D-Rock in that she openly she said she'd be happy to give up her AK-47 if it meant keeping things like what happened from happening again and I hope that many can follow by her example. I'd certainly feel safer if I knew it was much more regulated than it is. If people cannot responsibly own a gun then they shouldn't have a gun at all. Fin.
The unfortunate thing about regulation is the penchant for loopholes. That, and it's hard to enforce. It's like the sex offender registry. Per the Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Although currently all States have some form of registry in place, many cannot efficiently or accurately share information."
... which illustrates the noble intention of such a registry, and the inherit issues with said registry.
If guns are outlawed because wackos can't handle the idea of shooting skeet instead of people, then will they make bullet-proof vests, military grade helmets and neck protectors illegal for civilians too, since they give attackers an edge? If people want to ban guns because the baddies have them, then we need to take away their safety advantage, too, else we be be half-thinking hypocrites.
Personally, I think high capacity clips should be banned for civilians. I don't think there's a logical reason to have them, aside from shits and giggles, which really isn't that logical when one thinks about it. The average person will have a gun for hunting or self defense, unless they inherited the firearm and have it for sentimental reasons. Can't hunt with a high capacity clip, and a shotgun is perfect for home defense because it won't penetrate walls like a high-powered rifle. Anything beyond those are really unneeded and have the potential to feed a very ugly and violent beast.
Here in California, we have an assualt gun ban. If it looks and/or operates like one, odds are Joe Blow can't get it unless he bought it while serving in the military. D-Rocks wicked shotgun is very illegal here :( I'd love one for the next time some asshat tries climbing through my bedroom window. Even unloaded, the sound it makes when it's pumped, is enough to stop a dipshit in their tracks.
AK-47 automatically makes me think Lord of War.
ReplyDeleteI LOVE D-Rock's comment of "If four 12 gauge shells won't put them down, you're fucked anyways." I want that on a teeshirt, dammit.
The knee-jerk reaction that happens after such tragedies should be remembered as an emotional reaction in a time logic is needed. If people really, really want to make sure shit like this happens less, then they need to acknowledge putting a band-aid on something that requires a tourniquet will not work in the long run... and we'll be back at square one. That way, less loopholes are created for others to exploit. Rushing things through in the wake of disaster will inevitably create said loophole.
Loopholes are BAD! Say no to legislative loopholes!
/end PSA
Another excellent and very relevant show. Thank you Jenn & D-Rock!
http://www.zazzle.com/4_shells-235710147950105059 Like this.... :D I took the smallest commission I could on it
DeleteOMG, this is official, she's internet famous! Someone made a t-shirt, she's internet famous. LOLOL
DeleteShe needs her face on it, with the bad ass twelve gauge ready to fight deh zombies. Epic.
DeleteHeh, methinks I needs a new teeshirt.
I'm proud of D-Rock for being able to realize she was wrong on a topic and changing her mind. Any topic, I'm not referring to gun control specifically. So few people are able to do that. They get a view and hold to it come hell or high water.
DeleteHere's the Lord of War of the AK-47 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF-t-0hDDIA
ReplyDeleteI love when you guys do serious episodes, I learn so much! I also hate you guys (kidding!), because I paused at the beginning and spent ten minutes trying to find info about how/why al-Qa'ida sets their videos up the way the do and what all goes into it. No luck so far, and since I study that sort of thing, I'm super disappointed.
ReplyDeleteI bet more people are like you guys, changing your opinions on gun ownership in response to current events, than we see in the media. I hope so, at least.
It makes me a little more hopeful that there are some gun owners who are willing to change their stance on semi-automatic weapons. So, thanks for that hope Des. You're awesome and I adore you.
ReplyDeleteI love it when smart women show off their smarts by: 1. Questioning everything 2. Educating themselves 3. Forming opinions based on what they've learned. Jen, you and D-Rock are class acts all the way! Love the Roadhouse & love ya both!
ReplyDelete~Roni Lynne
Yay! So pleased with this episode. For one, it was really interesting to hear about the various guns, since I'm not overly familiar with them. I was also very happy to hear D-rock's thoughts on things. I love it when people who enjoy guns can have moderate and reasonable opinions about gun control. I've always said that it's perfectly fine to keep hunting weapons around, but there's no reason to keep guns that can only be used to kill large numbers of people.
ReplyDeleteAwesome episode! I'm kind of in love with D-Rock.
ReplyDeleteSince you're doing Joss Whedon next week, can you please explain to me what the big deal is about that guy? I love Dr. Horrible, but pretty much everything else he's done just seems so meh to me.
You brought up a really good point - about the difficulty of actually stopping or shooting a prepared mass-shooter. And a lot of the mass-shooters have been VERY prepared. Banks quit having armed security guards - partly due to cost, but also very much because of liability reasons and because the armed guards are typically the first thing a prepared robber goes after.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that a lot of gun owners way over-estimate their own ability, let alone that of other gun owners. And even police officers aren't all at the same level, and police officers - despite their own preparedness - are surprised in the line of duty. A lot of police officers are wounded and killed every year - including extremely experienced veterans - and a lot of police who return fire aren't able to make every shot count. So we have instances where an entire magazine is emptied relatively ineffectually, or bystanders struck.
As Jen and D-Rock both noted - not every gun owner (and frankly, only a minority of gun owners) actually secure their weapons against unauthorized use. Real gun safes (the big kind and not the kind you can carry under your arm) are expensive and an extremely tiny percentage of all gun owners have one. That's why a lot of guns used in mass shootings were legally obtained by someone else, and then easily borrowed by the mass shooter who is a relative or friend. This is without even going into the pass-through sales where someone deliberately buys a gun for someone else who otherwise couldn't buy one.
I think D-Rock's suggestion of elevating the requirements for owning *certain* weapons is a good one. While many gun owners hold up Switzerland as a country with high gun ownership but relatively low crime and murder rate, what they overlook is that 1) Males in Switzerland serve in the military and receive training 2) Ammunition for their military rifles is typically kept secured in central depots 3) Switzerland has far more requirements for permitting and obtaining firearms than the U.S.
The problem is that the NRA fears a slippery slope, so the organization and its members or supporters refuse to budge a single inch - even for "reasonable" requirements. Because they fear once an inch is granted, more will be lost. If the U.S. *was* like Switzerland - requiring compulsory military service and training, and heavily regulating gun ownership - perhaps the murder rate, as well as mass-murder rate - might lessen. Or maybe not. It's difficult to pivot a society with 300 million firearms that has spent decades believing in easily availability of guns with few restrictions to adopt changes.
It's relevant to note that the Assault Weapon Ban and High-Capacity Magazinr Ban placed high barriers to obtaining "assault-type" weapons and high-capacity magazines - in the form of prices that often tripled over what they were before. Some manufacturers did end up producing modified variants of the same weapons, with cosmetic changes to comply with the ban. A few manufacturers like Heckler & Koch (already high-end) basically didn't bother (other than producing a limited number of SR-9 variants of the banned HK-91). It's also relevant to note that while high prices may be a deterrent for some or many potential mass-shooters (very few have used expensive weapons) that wasn't the case with Sandy Hook where the shooter's mother procured high-end weapons which he then used.
I think higher barriers to owning certain weapons - through training requirements, licensing, higher prices, and some regulations - would reduce the number of mass shootings. The only way to truly eliminate them or make them very rare would be a total ban. But a total ban is essentially impossible due to needing to amend the Constitution (and the 2nd Amendment won't be amended) and by the 300 million firearms existing in the U.S., many or most of which no one really knows who owns them.
Loved the episode. As always informational and well put together, and its especially refreshing to see people talk about guns responsibly. I have always been an advocate of gun control just because it seemed irresponsible not to, and not because I've ever had a poor experience with guns. My grandpa owns them, but he was always the very spirit of The Rifleman, which I didn't watch with him until I was already in college, whose message always was that a gun is a tool and should only be the last resort in a situation. He has sold a lot of them off now, but he was a hobbyist of sorts and had a varied collection. I was never interested in them as a child, but I know he kept them in a case and the ammunition wasn't in one unless he intended to use it; however, I imagine if someone had wanted to break in and steal one that it may not have been terribly difficult to do while we were out. He didn't have anything beyond a semi-automatic except maybe a fully automatic hand gun, but like D-Rock said a semi-automatic can do plenty of damage on its own. In the wake of the many senseless tragedies that have kept my parents and others up at nights I think some reform is long overdue. Not only for the safety of children in schools, but also for the well-being of the general public. It is scary to think what kind of death machines are wandering around out there and who has access to them. It was kind of funny to poke at E.L. James not being able to Google the sort of basic requirements to get a gun, but in the end maybe its kind of a sad perception of American society; after all, in the hands of a slightly more skilled author switch out the exaggerated way she obtained her gun to her getting one from a friend or a relative or even stealing it from them and in the wake of what happened it becomes eerily similar to what just occurred. Food for thought.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I hope we can come together as a society and make changes for the better. I wish more people were like D-Rock in that she openly she said she'd be happy to give up her AK-47 if it meant keeping things like what happened from happening again and I hope that many can follow by her example. I'd certainly feel safer if I knew it was much more regulated than it is. If people cannot responsibly own a gun then they shouldn't have a gun at all. Fin.
The unfortunate thing about regulation is the penchant for loopholes. That, and it's hard to enforce. It's like the sex offender registry. Per the Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Although currently all States have some form of registry in place, many cannot efficiently or accurately share information."
Delete... which illustrates the noble intention of such a registry, and the inherit issues with said registry.
If guns are outlawed because wackos can't handle the idea of shooting skeet instead of people, then will they make bullet-proof vests, military grade helmets and neck protectors illegal for civilians too, since they give attackers an edge? If people want to ban guns because the baddies have them, then we need to take away their safety advantage, too, else we be be half-thinking hypocrites.
Personally, I think high capacity clips should be banned for civilians. I don't think there's a logical reason to have them, aside from shits and giggles, which really isn't that logical when one thinks about it. The average person will have a gun for hunting or self defense, unless they inherited the firearm and have it for sentimental reasons. Can't hunt with a high capacity clip, and a shotgun is perfect for home defense because it won't penetrate walls like a high-powered rifle. Anything beyond those are really unneeded and have the potential to feed a very ugly and violent beast.
Here in California, we have an assualt gun ban. If it looks and/or operates like one, odds are Joe Blow can't get it unless he bought it while serving in the military. D-Rocks wicked shotgun is very illegal here :( I'd love one for the next time some asshat tries climbing through my bedroom window. Even unloaded, the sound it makes when it's pumped, is enough to stop a dipshit in their tracks.
Just my two-cents.